NPR’s Mary Louise Kelly speaks with Karen Tumulty of The Washington Post and Politico reporter Eliana Johnson about a report from BuzzFeed News that Trump directed Michael Cohen to lie to Congress, the feud between President Trump and Speaker Pelosi, and the second summit between Trump and Kim Jong Un.
MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
All right. We have a lot of ground to cover today in our Friday Week In Politics chat. Truly, it is never a dull moment. So let’s hop right in with Eliana Johnson of Politico and Karen Tumulty of The Washington Post. Welcome back, you two.
KAREN TUMULTY: Great to be here.
ELIANA JOHNSON: Thank you.
KELLY: All right. Let’s start with where Ryan Lucas just left off and this bombshell report, if true, from BuzzFeed. Karen, you first. Of the gazillion bombshells that have dropped having to do with Trump and his personal – his former personal attorney and Russia and all the rest of it, how big a deal is this one?
TUMULTY: If it turns out to be true, it’s a very, very big deal. We’re now in a situation now where I think every news organization is pursuing this, but nobody has been able to confirm it. I mean, there’s an old joke in journalism – the worst thing you could possibly have is a scoop that stays a scoop.
KELLY: That nobody’s proven or disproven, right.
TUMULTY: Right. Obstruction of justice is a difficult crime often. And again, there’s a question of whether the president can be accused of a crime while he’s in office. But it is often difficult to prove because it is sort of a state-of-mind crime. You have to prove intent. So the question would be, is there in fact this corroborating evidence out there, these text messages or whatever we’re talking about? That could just change the whole ball game.
KELLY: And just to be clear, we’re told – BuzzFeed hangs their article on these two anonymous sources, law enforcement officials. Again, anonymous. They’re not named. But they say those officials had access to documents and text messages and all kinds of other things that corroborate it. It’s not just a – what they’re saying. Eliana, what do you think? I mean, NPR – again, we should state – has not confirmed the BuzzFeed reporting. But BuzzFeed argues that this is a big deal because it would mark the first known example, if proven true, of the president explicitly telling a subordinate to lie directly about his dealings with Russia.
JOHNSON: I agree with Karen that if this is true, I think it is the worst thing for the president’s prospects of staying in office that has come out yet. We know that special counsel Robert Mueller was investigating obstruction of justice already, but that was for the president’s firing of former FBI Director Jim Comey. And that would be a far harder thing to argue is obstruction of justice than would be the president’s instructing a subordinate to lie to Congress, which is subornation of perjury and obstruction of justice. Recall – that’s what Bill Clinton was impeached for in the late ’90s, and that was something that Republicans by and large supported.
KELLY: And this is prompting fresh talks. Speaking of impeachment, it’s prompting fresh talk on Capitol Hill.
JOHNSON: Exactly. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi already under pressure from her caucus to impeach the president. If this is true, it will be a far easier case for her -…
